Bard 12th Level ability

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Bard 12th Level ability

Post by Tromador on 15th March 2011, 3:24 am

As I am of the opinion that the level 12 bard power "song of freedom" is a load of bollocks, I wish to propose that it be scrapped and something put in to replace it.

I've had a couple of thoughts, one being some kind of improved version of inspire competence, but this really feels like a poor quality power for level 12.

So I'm currently thinking the following:

Song of Holding

As "Hold Monster" with the following differences:

Casting time = Full round action.
Duration = Concentration, max 1 round/level
DC = 10 + Half bard level + Charisma Bonus

Effectively it lasts as long as the bard keeps playing, thus no other bard songs, or spells with verbal components etc can be used. Creature saves every round as usual.
avatar
Tromador
Burnination in my Pantination
Burnination in my Pantination

Posts : 386
Join date : 2008-01-11
Age : 109

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bard 12th Level ability

Post by JohnBoy on 15th March 2011, 4:23 am

After reading 'song of freedom' it does seem kinda poor.

Improved Inspire Competence sounds like possibly a good idea. Hows about ...

A bard of 12th level or higher with 15 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his music or poetics to help an ally succeed at a task. The ally must be within 30 feet and able to see and hear the bard. The bard must also be able to see the ally.
The ally gets a +6 competence bonus on skill checks with a particular skill as long as he or she continues to hear the bardís music. Certain uses of this ability are infeasible. The effect lasts as long as the bard concentrates, up to a maximum of 5 minutes. A bard canít inspire competence in himself. Improved Inspire competence is a mind-affecting ability.

Just a general buff to the skill, +6 instead of +2 and max duration increased to 5 minutes instead of 2 mins. LVL 12 useage restrictions added as well (12th level / 15 ranks)

Although Song Of Holding looks sweet.
avatar
JohnBoy
ZzZzap! Spaceman!
ZzZzap! Spaceman!

Posts : 120
Join date : 2010-06-15
Age : 33
Location : Glasgow

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bard 12th Level ability

Post by illumination on 15th March 2011, 4:55 am

an individual freedom of movement or greater dispel magic seem the most sensible options to me.
avatar
illumination
VOTE NAZI TANK!
VOTE NAZI TANK!

Posts : 496
Join date : 2007-10-22
Age : 10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bard 12th Level ability

Post by JohnBoy on 15th March 2011, 5:05 am

GDM maybe yeah, but FOM is an easily gotten spell anyway for both Bard and for myself to cast on ourselves / others.

It's a 12th level ability so it's got to stand up to the level.
Instant would be my way for the above suggestion but 1/day seem like a fair trade off for what is essentially a mid level ability? (be it, a shit one.)

*edit* Ok, my suggestons may seem a bit n00bish or whatever but i'm trying to get more involved in the rule generation and shit with you guys. Feel free to ignore them as appropriate.
avatar
JohnBoy
ZzZzap! Spaceman!
ZzZzap! Spaceman!

Posts : 120
Join date : 2010-06-15
Age : 33
Location : Glasgow

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bard 12th Level ability

Post by Tromador on 15th March 2011, 6:14 am

I'm just not sure where FoM or GD fit into the Bard progression.

The bard has two types of songs: Songs to influence others and songs to buff allies.

Then for no reason I can warrant, stuck right in the middle is some weak assed ability to remove a few rare enchantments. It's out of place. Choosing "freedom of movement" just because the song is called song of freedom is no less out of place, greater dispel is as out of place as break enchantment.

IMNSHO Whatever the power is at 12th level, it should fall into place with the rest of the songs and make sense.
avatar
Tromador
Burnination in my Pantination
Burnination in my Pantination

Posts : 386
Join date : 2008-01-11
Age : 109

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bard 12th Level ability

Post by ^^Truth on 15th March 2011, 6:38 am

Yes. I'm in agreement with Trom here.

Bards have two types of powers. Spell-like effects and morale based buffs for their allies.

Their spell-like abilities occur at every 6th level (6, 12, 18) and always appear two levels after the bard could have picked them. Suggestion second level spell, second level being available at 4th, power appears at 6th. Break Enchantment 4th level, available at level ten, Song of Freedom appears at level twelve and so on.

So to remove Break Enchantment and give them something else, it should be a 4th level spell and appear at 12th. It makes sense that it would be compulsion magic and again, yes Freedom of Movement only makes sense in the name and nothing else. Dimension Door is the same level but would be equally out of place and not suggested I am sure because it's a popular spell. Naturally it would be tempting to replace a bad ability with an equally bad ability (which isn't to say Freedom of Movement is bad, but too long in duration I feel).

Hold Monster is enchantment/charm and compulsion, the same as Suggestion and Mass Suggestion, so fitting that in makes sense. Also this help them in offensive functions slightly, although a typical bard would be removing themselves mostly from combat whilst Hold Monster was under effect (requires concentration so bards are then limited to only a standard action whilst keeping it up and also cannot use anything with verbal components).

The only difference the replacement Hold Monster power would have over Suggestion and Mass Suggestion was it's feasibility within combat, since both of the other abilities require the subjects to undergo Fascinate as well before hand (which is virtually impossible to risk to be honest).

However I cannot help but think that Bards would benefit greatly from a higher level power in combat, even if it did remove them temporarily (or severely reduce their other abilities).

As far as Inspire Competence goes. The song needs to increase in power, simply put.

The other half of the bard abilities are buffs for companions (and themselves mostly). Inspire Courage, Inspire Competence, Inspire Greatness and Inspire Heroics. The problem is that every power grows in power as the bard goes up in levels, except Inspire Competence, which is the weakest power of them all anyway.

Either one of two things need to happen. Either Inspire Competence is changed to effect more targets or it remains single target and the bonus increases over the levels, so that it acts in the same way as the entire Inspire line.

Inspire Courage: Effects all Allies. Gains power as the bard levels.
Inspire Greatness: Power remains the same. Effects more allies as the bard levels.
Inspire Heroics: Power remains the same. Effects more allies as the bard levels.

I would suggest Inspire Competence remaining single target, but the power increase every 5th level. So at 3rd it's +2 to a skill, At 8th +3, 13th +4 and 18th +5.

You could potentially allow the bard to effect an additional ally every 3rd level instead, but that would still make it a bit shitty at higher levels.

Over and out Smile


Last edited by ^^Truth on 15th March 2011, 6:50 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
^^Truth
Super Nazi Admin
Super Nazi Admin

Posts : 895
Join date : 2007-10-05
Age : 37
Location : Zert's mommas bedroom!

View user profile http://baatorian.ripz.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Bard 12th Level ability

Post by JohnBoy on 15th March 2011, 6:46 am

So what I said first then except I had it a little more OP than that Razz
avatar
JohnBoy
ZzZzap! Spaceman!
ZzZzap! Spaceman!

Posts : 120
Join date : 2010-06-15
Age : 33
Location : Glasgow

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bard 12th Level ability

Post by ^^Truth on 15th March 2011, 6:51 am

Sort of, lol.

I want both to apply. The inspire competence thing is a change to that power, otherwise Trom's write up for a replacement for Song of Freedom is good.
avatar
^^Truth
Super Nazi Admin
Super Nazi Admin

Posts : 895
Join date : 2007-10-05
Age : 37
Location : Zert's mommas bedroom!

View user profile http://baatorian.ripz.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Bard 12th Level ability

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum