Break Enchantment

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Break Enchantment

Post by ^^Truth on 3rd March 2011, 9:27 pm

Code:
Break Enchantment
Abjuration
Level:   Brd 4, Clr 5, Luck 5, Pal 4, Sor/Wiz 5
Components:   V, S
Casting Time:   1 minute
Range:   Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets:   Up to one creature per level, all within 30 ft. of each other
Duration:   Instantaneous
Saving Throw:   See text
Spell Resistance:   No

This spell frees victims from enchantments, transmutations, and curses.Break enchantment can reverse even an instantaneous effect.For each such effect, you make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level, maximum +15) against a DC of 11 + caster level of the effect. Success means that the creature is free of the spell, curse, or effect. For a cursed magic item, the DC is 25.

If the spell is one that cannot be dispelled by dispel magic, break enchantment works only if that spell is 5th level or lower.

If the effect comes from some permanent magic item break enchantment does not remove the curse from the item, but it does frees the victim from the itemís effects.


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/breakEnchantment.htm

Alright.

Break Enchantment is an extremely bad spell. It's a one minute cast dispel magic, thus basically useless 99% of the time as spell effects tend to run out before that minute is up, cannot be used to counter spell and cannot be used in combat.

Effectively the only spells it deals with are Lesser Geas, Bestow Curse, Mark of Justice and Baleful Polymorph. Those are the only spells dispel magic cannot remove in 1/10th the time that Break Enchantment does. For a 5th level spell, it's not very useful to be honest, extremely specialist and going back to 2005 and looking at all games since then, none of the above effects have even come up, so perhaps this is just our group.

To change and sort this spell out, I would suggest that.

- Change the duration to 1 full round.
This would allow the spell to be used in combat, but not allow counter-spells. Also remember that it only removes enchantment and transmutation magic, so it won't deal with a cause blindness/deafness as an example.
- Remove the caster level check.
Assume the spell always works and removes one curse/affliction without the need to roll, this would help the spell in later levels, especially when greater dispel magic is available.

With the above changes. Should your group get say, confused as per the spell, you could obviously just use dispel magic and keep your movement action, but if you want to be sure, you'd have the option of focusing for the full round to definitely remove the effect.

What you all think?

Note: When we come across wank spells, we should be changing them. My Diviner in Serp's game is the reason Arcane Eye/Clairvoyance etc are changed.
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Re: Break Enchantment

Post by JohnBoy on 4th March 2011, 12:54 am

After reading up on this I happen to agree fully with your changes.

Nothing much more to add really

And your small print is good.
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Re: Break Enchantment

Post by Tromador on 4th March 2011, 8:26 am

There's bazillions of spells. If one of them is useless, why not simply remove it from the system?

Personally, I'm quite worried by potentially creating a spell that can kill magic without some kind of caster roll, the offensive capabilities are massive.

Real game example: We are using magic/psionics transparency. In magic terms telekinesis is a transmutation.

Tza'rok is using his psionics to carry himself over the gap in the Nepthes Bridge. The Chasme fails to kill him because his power resistance stops the dispel magic from working.

Alternatively

Tza'rok is using his psionics to carry himself over the gap in the Nepthes Bridge. The Chasme uses break enchantment. No save, no spell resistance. Tza is dead in the Styx.

Unreal game example:

Elminster (Ftr1/Rog2/Clr9/Wiz24/Acm5) has polymorphed into a dragon and is flying about having all kinds of fun. Grunthor the Innocuous (Wiz9) spoils it all with his break enchantment spell. For all Elminster's power, Grunthor can still be the party pooper.

I think I see where you are going with this, but what I actually think you need is not to fix a broken spell, but to invent a new one, with the right kinds of restrictions so that it can't be abused.
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Re: Break Enchantment

Post by ^^Truth on 4th March 2011, 8:48 am

If you read the spell description (first four words), it is worded that it only removes harmful effects, not beneficial ones. Thus both of your points would not work. Both the Chasme and Grunthor the Innocuous would have egg on their faces.

Break Enchantment in any form cannot be used to dispel magics in general, only removes negative spell effects.
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Re: Break Enchantment

Post by Tromador on 5th March 2011, 6:53 am

You're relying on the word "victim" in the sentence. Vague and poorly worded.
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Re: Break Enchantment

Post by ^^Truth on 5th March 2011, 8:15 am

lol.

I'm not relying on anything at all. Read the spell. It "frees" "victims" of enchantments, transmutations and curses. It's very obvious.

If it was intended to be used as dispel magic is, it would say so and not have a one minute casting time.
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Re: Break Enchantment

Post by ^^Truth on 9th March 2011, 10:18 pm

Right then.

I'll add this to future house rules.
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Re: Break Enchantment

Post by illumination on 9th March 2011, 11:05 pm

I am happy for us to change this, but sorting it is and either or for me.

Its either 1 round casting time with a caster level check for each enchantment, or 1 minute for automatic success. Doing both means takes it too far if you ask me. Could be too much of an automatic way out of some very powerful spells.

My advice is casting time becomes a standard action and you roll caster level for each enchantment on each person effected. If its like that im happy for it to change now in this campaign.
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Re: Break Enchantment

Post by ^^Truth on 9th March 2011, 11:25 pm

Thing is, it has to be better than dispel magic at what it does, because it has such a specialised role. No one even memorises it, because it's pure horse shit. At least if it was auto successes and 1 round casting time it might be considered a little bit.

I still don't think it would be memorised most of the time.

We can discuss the details once the campaign is over. See how often I use Break Enchantment with Ruby though, I suspect 0 times for the rest of the campaign (much like inspire competence).
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Re: Break Enchantment

Post by Tromador on 11th March 2011, 9:02 am

Having thought this through, I've reached the following opinion:

The spell is thoroughly broken and should simply be deleted from existence. No attempt should be made to fix it.

I do not believe there should be any spell which automatically removes any other caster's magical effects without some kind of opposed roll, therefore Dispel Magic covers the removal of malign magic as much as is necessary.

If anyone has taken this as a spell pick, they should be allowed to erase and choose another.
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Re: Break Enchantment

Post by ^^Truth on 11th March 2011, 9:07 am

It's the 12th level bard power mate. Except it's single target not multiple.

Open to suggestions.
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Re: Break Enchantment

Post by ^^Truth on 11th March 2011, 10:54 am

To expand on the above since I don't think I was very clear.

It's the 12th level bars power (yet single target), so if you remove it from the game, what do bards get at 12th? It's a forth level bard spell (funny how bards can take the spells before they get the songs and the spells are better).

Freedom of Movement perhaps, that wouldn't have the same effect, but at least the song/spell name much. Otherwise maybe restoration or greater dispel magic? Dunno.

These are of course just suggestions. I still think it can be fixed, but with both of my changes necessary to make it workable.

Despite that, I don't see why dispel magic doesn't remove Baleful Polymorph/Geas and why Bestow Curse cannot be left to Remove Curse.
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Re: Break Enchantment

Post by Tromador on 11th March 2011, 12:09 pm

^^Truth wrote:It's the 12th level bard power mate. Except it's single target not multiple.

Open to suggestions.

My bad. I did think this was a lot of fuss about a crap spell. Smile

I shall replace my thinking cap forthwith.

It is a bit innocuous mind. Lots of songs of buffing and influencing and suddenly in the middle of it, a fucked up break enchantment that's not even as good as the spell a bard could have taken three levels earlier. It's an anachronism and needs replacing with something a bit more sensible, which fits in as a progression with the other bardic music abilities.

First thought off the bat is some kind of upgraded "Inspire Competence" though that might be a bit lame. I'll think on.


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